Design and evaluation are intertwined. One doesn't come before the other. They're always together. It's like a right half and the left half; they're just there.
John Gargani
President, Gargani + Company
About This Episode
Scaling impact sounds simple: just do more of what worked. In reality, it's far messier. In this episode, Matt sits down with evaluation pioneer John Gargani to explore the intersections of design, evaluation, and scaling impact. Together they unpack why the "classic" growth model of scaling falls short, why design and evaluation are inseparable, and how context shapes everything when trying to create change at scale.
Key Takeaways
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1
Design and evaluation are inseparable
They're intertwined like two halves of a whole. You can't effectively do one without the other, and professional evaluators bring crucial structure to the convergent thinking that design requires.
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2
Design thinking requires discipline, not just creativity
The playful, imaginative side of design is appealing, but real design work also involves discipline, iteration, and sometimes tedium. The 72nd iteration doesn't feel the same as the first.
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3
The "classic" scaling model is insufficient
Assuming that doing more of the same creates more impact ignores how context shapes outcomes. Scaling is about optimising impact, not maximising it.
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4
Context matters, and scaling changes context
When you scale, you interact with the system you're scaling into. That dynamic interaction creates emergent effects that can alter impacts in unpredictable ways.
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5
Scaling creates ongoing responsibility
When you scale something effectively, you own it. You need to monitor, maintain, and sometimes descale. The people affected should be making the trade-off decisions along the way.
Topics Covered
Resources Mentioned
- Scaling Impact: Innovation for the Public Good — free book by Rob McLean and John Gargani
- GIZ Scaling Digital Innovations Workbook — practical workbook for scaling (applicable beyond digital)
- IDRC Scaling Exchange — community of scaling fellows and resources
About John
John Gargani
President, Gargani + Company | Co-Author, Scaling Impact: Innovation for the Public Good
John Gargani is President of Gargani + Company and served as President of the American Evaluation Association in 2016. With over 30 years in the field, he brings deep expertise in evaluation methods, program design, and scaling. John holds a PhD in Education from UC Berkeley and graduate degrees from NYU and Wharton.
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