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The It Depends Podcast
Episode Library

Conversations and explorations for those grappling with complexity, evaluation, and systems change.

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Season 2

22 July 2026

#24 Get Listening. Get Curious. Get Uncomfortable: Good Food Systems Work with Stephanie Godrich

with Dr Stephanie Godrich, Senior Lecturer in Nutrition, Edith Cowan University

Stephanie Godrich on what food systems really are, lessons from mapping and strengthening 170 food security initiatives across Western Australia, and her advice for doing this work well — get listening, get curious, and get comfortable with being uncomfortable.

Listen 47 min

Season 2

26 June 2026

#23 Trust and Relationships: Key ingredients for place-based approaches with Tanya Rong

with Tanya Rong, Chair, Latrobe Health Assembly

Tanya Rong on what makes work genuinely place-based — why trust comes before everything, how getting the ‘preparation’ right lets participation and impact follow, and what it took to rebuild the Latrobe Health Assembly after it was defunded.

Listen 51 min

Season 2

10 June 2026

#22 Convene. Catalyse. Learn: Systems change for kids with Michael Hogan

with Michael Hogan, Executive Convenor, Queensland Kids Partnership

Michael Hogan on systems change for Queensland kids — why the partnership chose to convene rather than compete, how it leads, facilitates and affiliates across a fragmented ecosystem, and what it takes to shift investment toward outcomes.

Listen 47 min

Season 2

26 May 2026

#21 Making Space, Valuing Place: A Preview of AES26 in Darwin with Christabelle Darcy and Alison Reedy

with Christabelle Darcy & Alison Reedy, Co-Convenors, AES 2026 Conference

Christabelle and Alison preview the 2026 AES Conference in Darwin — the 'Making Space, Valuing Place' theme, the four subthemes, the keynote line-up, and what the co-convenors are most excited about.

Listen 38 min

Season 2

15 May 2026

#20 Be Bold and Lift the Bar: Lived Experience, Dignity and Systems Change with Diana Connell

with Diana Connell, Lived Experience Advocate & Ambassador

Diana shares her story of surviving two decades of family violence, walks through what genuine co-design with lived experience actually looks like — multiple voices, fair pay, trauma-informed practice — and makes the urgent case that women deserve more than just to survive across family violence, housing and economic security.

Listen 52 min

Season 2

22 April 2026

#19 Beyond Sticky Notes: Beauty, Power, Patience and Practice with KA McKercher

with KA McKercher, Founder, Beyond Sticky Notes

KA unpacks why good co-design is about beauty, choice and relationships as much as methods, makes the case that most communities don't need a brand new project — just someone to notice and strengthen what's already there — and shares why endings, seasonality and patience matter as much as the work itself.

Listen 47 min

Season 2

7 April 2026

#18 The Gap in the Middle Is Homelessness: From Systems Mapping to Safe at Home with Jocelyn Bignold

with Jocelyn Bignold, CEO, McAuley Community Services for Women

Jocelyn unpacks the deep intersection between family violence and homelessness in Australia, walks us through the Safe at Home trial in Geelong and Barwon — which is flipping the script on who has to leave — and shares how systems mapping became her North Star for designing a whole-of-family approach to keeping women and children safe.

Listen 51 min

Season 2

24 March 2026

#17 From Why to How: Engaging Men and Boys in Violence Prevention with Michael Flood

with Professor Michael Flood, Queensland University of Technology

Michael unpacks the shift from arguing why men and boys should be engaged in violence prevention to the harder question of how — covering bystander approaches, the man box, why "toxic masculinity" as a phrase can backfire, and what genuinely effective primary prevention looks like in schools, workplaces, and communities.

Listen 42 min

Season 2

7 March 2026

#16 A New Currency: Reframing How We Value Systems Change with Heidi Peterson

with Heidi Peterson, Lead Principal Consultant, Clear Horizon Consulting

Heidi breaks down why traditional cost-benefit analyses often fail systems change initiatives and introduces a new framework for capturing value that usually sits "beneath the surface". She explores the shift from evaluator as judge to co-constructor of value, why the best way to value a system is to get the system in the room, and how to stay pragmatic when resources are tight but the stakes are high.

Listen 43 min

Season 2

21 February 2026

#15 Aligning Place, Evidence, and Change: Lessons from the UK with John Hitchin

with John Hitchin, Co-Founder, Stories of Change

John unpacks what genuinely makes work place-based versus just happening in a place, and walks us through a new taxonomy of five categories of place-based change — each driven by different mechanisms and requiring different forms of evidence. It's a rich conversation about aligning evidence to how change actually happens, the role of relationships, and what it takes to build a field of practice.

Listen 51 min

Season 2

2 February 2026

#14 To Be a Good Human: Co-Design, Two-Way Learning, and Redistributing Power with Jessie Robinson

with Jessie Robinson, Founder, Mawang Consulting

Jessie Robinson on why co-design is about power, not process — and when stepping back matters more than stepping in. A conversation about First Nations ways of being, two-way learning, and what it takes to move beyond performative engagement toward genuine community-led change.

Listen 47 min

Season 1

17 December 2025

#13 Governance, Not Geography: Redefining What Place-Based Work Really Means with Luke Craven

with Dr Luke Craven, CEO, PLACE Australia

Luke shares PLACE Australia's defining insight from engaging with 53 place-based initiatives nationally: effective place-based work is fundamentally about governance, not geography. He outlines the three principles—subsidiarity, accountability, and partnership—that underpin meaningful practice, and explains why being "tight on purpose but loose on the how" might be the key to lasting systems change.

Listen 46 min

Season 1

4 December 2025

#12 Stories, Place, and Dishwashers: Rethinking Community Resilience with Gretel Evans

with Dr Gretel Evans, Research Fellow, Monash University

Gretel explores the intersections between storytelling, place, and community resilience. Drawing on her work with the Fire to Flourish program, she shares insights from the upcoming Community Disaster Resilience Capability Framework and explains why a commercial dishwasher might just be one of the best indicators of a resilient community.

Listen 48 min

Season 1

26 November 2025

#11 Foxes, Hedgehogs and Helpful Robots in the World of Evaluation with Bianca Montrosse-Moorhead

with Dr Bianca Montrosse-Moorhead, Professor of Evaluation, University of Connecticut

Bianca helps us look beneath the surface of evaluation practice. We explore the classic fox and hedgehog metaphor and what it reveals about how evaluators operate, why our tendencies matter, and how artificial intelligence is reshaping the judgments we make and the competencies we need.

Listen 52 min

Season 1

7 November 2025

#10 From Authority to Authenticity: Young Voices in Suicide Prevention Research with Maria Michail

with Dr Maria Michail, Associate Professor, University of Birmingham

Maria explores what happens when we stop treating suicide prevention as an individual issue and start seeing it as a system. Learn how participatory modelling can bring together lived experience and professional knowledge, why young people's voices are essential to meaningful research, and what it takes to shift from authority to authenticity.

Listen 42 min

Season 1

27 October 2025

#9 Co-Design and the Guiding Role of "Purpose" with Emma Blomkamp

with Emma Blomkamp, Director and Learning Partner, New Know How

Emma unpacks the shades of co-design—exploring when it works, when it doesn't, and why the "co" is really about power and participation. Learn how to assess your co-design maturity, avoid common pitfalls, and why getting clear on purpose should guide every decision in collaborative processes.

Listen 45 min

Season 1

13 October 2025

#8 Have a Cup of Tea: Bridging Complexity in Emergency Management with Todd Miller

with Todd Miller, Associate Director of Resilience, Auckland University of Technology

Todd explores why traditional command-and-control structures only tell part of the story in emergency management. Learn how his CADEM Framework uses systems thinking to recognise emergent actors—and why building trust over a cup of tea might be the most powerful preparedness strategy we have.

Listen 36 min

Season 1

29 September 2025

#7 Press Pause: Rethinking Systems and Evaluation with Emily Gates

with Emily Gates, Associate Professor of Evaluation, Boston College

Emily explores what it really means to evaluate systemic change—and why it starts with questioning boundaries, not accepting them. Learn why evaluators may need to act less like neutral judges and more like facilitators of critical deliberation, and why the field needs to pause and self-critique before rushing to do things differently.

Listen 58 min

Season 1

17–19 September 2025

AES25 Beyond the Bubble — Day 1: Binaries and Systems · Day 2: Validation and Meaning · Day 3: Connection and Collaboration

Matt and Tenille bring you a daily debrief from the 2025 Australian Evaluation Society Conference in Canberra. Three episodes, three days — covering keynotes, sessions and hallway conversations on First Nations evaluation, systems thinking, equity, and what makes the evaluation community tick.

Listen

Season 1

10 September 2025

#5 Beyond Cost-Benefit: Defining Value for Investment with Julian King

with Julian King, Director, Julian King & Associates

Julian introduces his award-winning Value for Investment (VfI) approach – an interdisciplinary framework that moves beyond traditional cost-benefit analysis. Learn how to define value propositions, use rubrics for transparent evaluative reasoning, and why stakeholder perspectives are essential for assessing what really matters.

Listen 37 min

Season 1

26 August 2025

#4 Context Matters! Designing and Scaling in Systems with John Gargani

with John Gargani, President, Gargani + Company

John explores the intersections of design, evaluation, and scaling impact. Learn why design and evaluation are inseparable, how the "classic" growth model of scaling falls short, and why context shapes everything when trying to create change at scale.

Listen 57 min

Season 1

15 August 2025

#3 Caring for Data, Caring for Country: Indigenous Data Sovereignty with Dr. Skye Trudgett

with Dr. Skye Trudgett, CEO, Kowa

Skye demystifies what Indigenous data sovereignty really means—"caring for data so data can care for Country and community"—and shares practical steps for implementation. Learn about common misconceptions, the importance of starting from community up, and the small but powerful changes that can shift systems.

Listen 41 min

Season 1

28 July 2025

#2 Blowing Bubbles: A Guide to the 2025 Australian Evaluation Conference

with Kim Grey, President, Australian Evaluation Society & Ruth Nicholls, Director, Australian Centre for Evaluation

Go behind the scenes with the co-conveners of the 2025 Australian Evaluation Conference in Canberra. Discover what's in store under the theme "Beyond the Bubble", including keynote speakers, sessions to watch, and why the magic of evaluation conferences lies in unexpected connections.

Listen 40 min

Season 1

20 July 2025

#1 Constraints, Commissioning, and Causation with Eleanor Williams

with Eleanor Williams, Managing Director, Australian Centre for Evaluation

A wide-ranging conversation on constraints, commissioning, and causation in public policy evaluation. We explore what makes evidence fit for purpose, relational commissioning, and the everyday ethical dilemmas evaluators face.

Listen 34 min

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